ResidualVM logo Forum Index - ResidualVM website - Contact us - Rules Login    Register     Search curved edge
It is currently Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:04 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 559 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36 ... 38  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:00 pm
Posts: 144
Well the global rotation of the model itself is no problem, I mean, it's easy to just rotate the model by 90 degrees on two of the axes in Blender, and then back again when you're done.

And if the model is even slightly recognizable (like the case with Meche up there), then that's no problem. All we do is model new pieces on top of the old ones, for example, we could model a hand or fingers, and then just position them in the way they are with the imported model.
Which leads to my next question: When you update your modified model (convert back to 3DO), will it come out OK in-game? I mean, if we positioned the new pieces in the same way as they were when imported, the rotations you talked about are going to stay the same right?

By the way, I got myself familiar a bit with the 3do MODL, do you remember where these rotations are kept exactly? Because if it's different for every model (I mean if you manually need to insert rotation code for each and every 3do), then it's not worth bothering with.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:17 pm
Posts: 54
There is a very useful writeup of the MODL format here.
http://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php?title=MODL

After all the definitions of the pieces of the model there's a hierarchy of "Nodes" which tell you how the pieces are parented to each other, and for each piece gives the offset from it's parent and well as a pitch, yaw and roll to orient the piece.

When Meche comes out sitting in a pose, these are not the rotations I'm talking about, that's just the default orientation of the pieces. Some of the later models are in very bizarre positions (legs folded back inside the chest, all ontop of itself etc), and you have to apply these extra rotations to get the model to it's default pose. I'm not really sure what the purpose of it is, but I'm assuming it would be quite difficult to remodel each piece without seeing it's proper position in the whole.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:00 pm
Posts: 144
Could you give an example as to one of the models (with it's 3do name if possible) that does that? I'd like to take a look, and see if I can figure something out, although I doubt that I could be of help with this one...

EDIT: OK, I can see it with gatekeeper.3do from DATA004.LAB.

EDIT: OK yet again, I can see the data for each node:

12 bytes pivot
12 bytes position
4 bytes pitch
4 bytes yaw
4 bytes roll

If I understood you correctly, you ignore the pitch, yaw and roll? Or I misunderstood?

If that's the case, then I think that it's not that hard, considering ResidualVM developers already did the work.

For example, in Grim Fandango:
Pitch is rotation around X
Yaw is rotation around Z
Roll is rotation around Y

The values should be grabbed as radian angles, and then the math can be applied on the vertex coordinates (relative to the pivot or parent of the object (this is an assumption from experience) ).

Take a look at math/rotation3d.h in residual's source, or you could take a look in somaen's tools here, which he pointed out to me in a previous post.
I think it would get clearer once you do this. I'd love to work on this a bit myself, but I'm afraid I haven't got any time, I'm working under a deadline :(


P.S.: 48 bytes are unknown after this :o


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:17 pm
Posts: 54
Alright I'll give this a go, doesn't seem too hard now that it's all layed out in front of me :)

I expect it will take a bit of fiddling to get it all working as expected, so I'm not sure how long it will take.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:00 pm
Posts: 144
That's understandable, and I'm thrilled that you decided to give it a go. Don't worry, take your time. Could you also make it ignore case while reading, and when updating back the 3do? This has nothing to do with the actual 3D model itself, but with the materials, so they can be read properly. It can easily be done with strcasecmp from #string.h, for example:

if (strcasecmp (string_from_matnames.h, string_from_3do_file) == 0) {
//Do everything else
}
This will compare the strings, and ignore their case, making lowercase or uppercase not important anymore.

Don't know why I didn't do this, I made every string being read tolower(), which creates problems afterwards. :oops:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 30
A quick and dirty render, with new hair and slightly edited chin.

Image

Image

Hair textures are not yet remapped.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:00 pm
Posts: 144
Hahah, I love the new hair :D
BTW, I don't see the edges anymore, so it was either a render thing, or you smoothed them out ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:12 am 
Online

Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 9:18 am
Posts: 102
The hair and chin looks good.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 30
I have thought about 3d eye geometry and face animation, and ended up with the following concept.

At first the original concept. It uses different Textures for the upper head including the eyes and hair. The whole lower part of the texture is used for the eyes and varies wile animation.

Image

The new concept uses for each eye expression a different area on the textures, while all other areas which are used for eyes are marked as transparent. This way we can model 3d-geometry for each expression and lay them on top of each other. By switching from one texture to another, it makes always just one of the 3d-eyes visible, wile the others are transparent.

Image

I hope i made myself understandable :D
I think this way, it could work. What do you think about it?.

I'm afraid this method would take a large amount of work and i don't know if its worth the effort. (And if we do this on glottis, should we do this on other characters to? Or would it destroy the reduced comic-like look of the characters)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:16 pm 
Online

Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 9:18 am
Posts: 102
That's a really good idea.

I don't think doing this for glotis means it has to be done for everyone only where it is needed. Maybe the other demons would need is but as they are all organic where as most other characters are bone and so ridged. But then the other demons don't have multiple expressions do they?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 8:06 am
Posts: 66
The new glottis model looks great! But I'm concerned the 3d eyes would deviate too much from the cutscenes, I would be happy with just higher res, more rounded eyes:)

Keep up the great work!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 30
Longcat wrote:
...3d eyes would deviate too much from the cutscenes...


Yeah, this is a point which displeases me since I've played some hours wit the high-poly manny.

Well, maybe we have a solution for this in the very far future (there are some ideas traveling through my brain), but this is also connected with a lot of work (character rigging, reanimating by rotoscopy (or how its named) and copying the animation on top of the existing(recalculated in hi resolution) cutscene and hoping that it looks good)....

and then i woke up... :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:00 pm
Posts: 144
Yeah I've thought about that too, and I've come to the conclusion that it might even be harder to do than it was to make the original videos. The rigginng would not be that complicated, since it's Rigid all the way, there's a piece for every limb, but tweaking it (keyframing it) to look just like the original would require a lot of work. Plus, for example, Manny has more facial-expressions in the videos than in-game. I'm guessing that goes for the other characters too. And that's not the most concerning part of it if you ask me. I think matching the lighting, environment and camera angles would be a devastating move :D

It's doable, but it would require A LOT of time, and more people, so the ones already working on it can take a break so they wouldn't lose their minds :D


BTW, that's real good logic that you've come up with concerning the eyes, although I'm not sure if it would work. Introducing new geometry for the game, means we'd probably have to edit the keyframes for the existing one (or maybe I'm wrong?). For example when Glottis is mad he uses glottis_head3.3do (not sure, just paraphrasing). Now we'd have to change that to something else, the new head that we've made. This information is kept in the *.key files if I remember correctly...

EDIT: Argh, my posts always end up on a new page. :x


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 8:06 am
Posts: 66
yeah, I thought about that too, but I would guess that in some of the cutscenes there are backgrounds which are not available in the rest of the game? how would you solve that?

Anyway, if it WAS possible to do this at some point, it would be absolutely brilliant!:)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:00 pm
Posts: 144
Well I was thinking of remodeling everything, and almost all of the models are simple with simple textures, mostly just one color (except for carpets, and the ones that look like this, and those would need work). The static scenery shouldn't be that hard to recreate in 3D, since there's more freedom there, you don't have to restrain yourself on the details and polycount since the final product is Video after all, and not something to be rendered real-time.

I think this would be a posibbility in the far future, as Blacksad said, but I think it'd be best if we went one step at a time. Not enough people yet to multitask to that extent...


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 559 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36 ... 38  Next

All times are UTC


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Forum design by ScummVM team, icons by raina, adopted for ResidualVM
curved edge   curved edge